Selling Outcomes Instead of Services

Episode Overview

Joe Pine, co-founder of Strategic Horizons and author of The Experience Economy, returns to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. The conversation breaks down the shift from staging memorable experiences to guiding customers through meaningful change, where customers invest time for compounding benefits, and businesses are accountable for outcomes.

Guest Bio

Joe Pine is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and management advisor. He co-founded
Strategic Horizons LLP and is best known for coining the term “The Experience Economy.”
Joe advises organizations on creating new forms of economic value through experiences and transformations. His latest book, The Transformation Economy, focuses on guiding customers to achieve lasting aspirations rather than short-term satisfaction.

Key Topics Covered

• What the Transformation Economy is and why it follows the Experience Economy
• The difference between time well spent and time well invested
• Why transformation is not marketing language, but an economic offering
• How B2B companies can design and deliver transformations
• Productizing transformation without commoditizing it
• The role of AI in diagnosis, coaching, and sustained change
• Pricing for outcomes instead of activities or time
• Why guarantees act as catalytic mechanisms for transformation
• Marketing as an “invitational transformation” and identity change
• First steps small businesses can take toward transformation-based offerings

Key Takeaways

1. Transformation is the next level of economic value. Businesses evolve from commodities to goods, services, experiences, and now transformations—where customers pay to become someone new.
2. Experiences are the raw material for transformation. Experiences create memories; transformations create lasting change and compound future benefits.
3. You cannot change customers—only guide them. Customers transform themselves. Businesses act as guides, coaches, counselors, or navigators.
4. B2B transformation is often easier than B2C. Businesses buy offerings as a means to an end; uncovering the true aspiration unlocks transformation opportunities.
5. Outcome-based pricing changes everything. Transformations require charging for outcomes, often supported by guarantees that align incentives.
6. AI enables scalable personalization. AI can support diagnosis, coaching, and follow-through—helping productize transformation at scale.
7. Marketing can invite identity change. Great marketing experiences help customers move from “I use this” to “I am this.”
8. Follow-through determines success. Sustaining change is often more valuable than achieving the initial result.

Great Moments & Timestamps

• 00:03 – “The real premium left is helping customers become someone new.”
• 01:04 – Joe Pine defines t